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@mipmip, On the contrary, a court banning a video sharing site talks about censorship incorporated in all authorities. You can't have laws to ban video sharing sites and courts that censor media no matter the corporate interest here and apply for EU.One more thing from the last week. Erdogan said Turkey is tired of waiting at the Europe's gates. What is this but extortion and a threat that Turkey is going to turn east otherwise. They know very well they don't meet the criteria.
@Terminator: The Vimeo ban is obviously due to a court order. Which comes to show that they obey the law, no matter how deteriorating it could be to some corporation's business. And I somehow fail to be outraged at someone consenting to a court order.
If they meet the criteria - yes. Racial and religious prejudice is inherent to the simple minded.
@pichurka, I don't know if you listened to the news the last two weeks. Angela Merkel stated that the ethnic model in Germany has failed, referring mostly to the Turkish minority in the country. She said that despite the effort that German society made to integrate the gastarbeiters this has not happened. A couple of days later other German politicians stated that Turkey is not doing enough to give the same wrights to the Christians in Turkey that are given to the Muslims in Germany.Germany is currently the most populous country in the European Union and the strongest economy. And if Germany thinks that it cannot handle Turkey I don't know who can.Another point - EU is not what it was before it accepted that many number of poorer Eastern Europe countries. It is not the union of the wealthiest now. And if it accepts Turkey it will lose more of its value and appeal.
@Terminator, I agree that Islam is probably still reactionary and may need a couple of centuries. But today, I don't think we can pretend that a quarter of the world does not exist, isolate them and turn a blind eye on what's going on in Islam countries. We can't afford to let Muslims get antagonistic by severing them.I think the path we should follow is one of education and integration, and having Turkey in the EU gives us an opportunity to follow this path more aggressively.
@Yordan_Yordanov, I don't know how you make your conclusions that I "evidently" I don't know anything about the history of religions. I am very well aware of it. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and some other minor sects form Abraham religions group. (Were you aware of that BTW?) But this does not change the fact that Islam appeared approximately six centuries after Christianity appeared. I don't get what is unclear here and what you rattle against.Every new religion is reactionary and so is Islam. Nothing personal, but I don't want them in Europe. If they are ready - fine, but they are not and they will not be in the next couple of centuries. This can't change with money. Their society needs to go the evolutionary way.
@Terminator: "Islam developed centuries after Christianity and probably this is because Muslims are still very reactionary."Evidently you don't know anything about the history of religions. Islam is based on Christianity, the same way as Christianity is based on Judaism. The main difference between Islam and Christianity is the fact that Muslims consider Jesus as messiah (not God). Also, Mohamed is not considered messiah in Christianity. Finally, Jesus is not considered God nor even messiah by Jews. Apart from that the three religions have differences in dogmas. After all, Islam is just an evolution of Christianity - the essence of these religions is the very same.SO - how can you say based on religion who is bad and who is good? Following you logic Christians are as bad for Jews as Muslims are bad for Christians?!
Just read that Turkey is going to ban just another web site on the internet - this time the video sharing site Vimeo. And they tend to block access to youtube from time to time there. How can I want such a country in EU? They still practice censorship at highest levels for gods sake. I just don't understand.http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/09/30/turkey-blocks-vimeo/
@pichurka, Islam developed centuries after Christianity and probably this is because Muslims are still very reactionary. Turkey is not mature for the EU yet and is not going to be in the next couple of centuries. One bad apple can ruin all the good ones.
@Terminator, A modern society should not be divided by religious arguments. Compliance with EU requirements will be a giant step for Turkey, and, if does make that step, it will have gone a long way from what it is today. I hope that EU membership will also make Turkish society much more secular and less influenced by religious teachings.
Tukrey will never be a part of Europe, because they are Muslims there and in Europe are christians. Europe has never seen anything good from Turkey. Only Ottoman invasions in the past and waves of low-educated emigrants lately.
@*AZA* You can find such examples for almost every country in the EU.
Maybe in 200 years. Go to a village in anadola and see what it looks like. You do not want that in EU?!
Yes, I'm a big fan of Turkey being admitted in the EU. They are a young nation (population-wise) and Europe needs that, considering its declining and graying population.
The questions have two sides: what the people in EU think and what the people in Turkey think. I have the feeling that in EU people are really afraid of some sort of "Islamic Invasion". I don't think this can really happen nowadays. Actually EU can only benefit from Turkey as it posses huge economical, military, natural, cultural and human resources.On the other side the Turkish people are not consentient about this. So in my opinion the Turkish people themselves must answer this question.
Preferably not
Thanks for this, @Steliyan_Petkov_Georgiev, very informative. What i actually meant, though, was that Turkey on its part also doesn't seem 100 % certain about this yet... (see "public reactions in Turkey" in the same article)Anyway, I'm not opposing you here, just further debating.. :)
Hi, @Kamelia_Genova, Turkey applied for an EU membership as early as 1987 and although it is already an associate member it is still far away from full membership. EU is also in a delicate position, because a harsh NO response to Turkey can push back the country decades or centuries back in time to its Islamic past. There is an article in Wikipedia on the subject that gives quite a good overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
But do they want to join the EU at all? This seems more like our problem than theirs...
I believe Turkey should be accepted to EU if they meet the criteria, even though geographically most of the Turkey territory is outside the European continent. But I also believe that Turkey is very far away from meeting the criteria especially in the field of human rights. Turkey, and particularly its bigger cities are economically at a standard EU level, but the Kurdish problem and the Cyprus problems aren't ones that are going to be solved soon. Don't get me wrong, it has nothing to with their religion.
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